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Perfect example why you shouldn't rely on ANYONE to test your water for you
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Replies: 8   Pages: 1   Most recent reply posted by: ste1982 (Mar 12, 2007 10:58 AM)

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jkj454

Posts: 4,290
From: Aurora, IL
Registered: Feb, 2003

Perfect example why you shouldn't rely on ANYONE to test your water for you Posted: Mar 10, 2007 4:05 PM
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In my experiences answering queries here and on behalf of the crew via e-mail, I come across many folks, usually beginners, who don't have their own water parameter test kits, and thus must rely on their LFS to test for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, etc. I *always* tell folks that in this hobby, it is essential to have your own quality test kit, and by using the word "quality", I generally mean one not of the "dip stick" variety. My experience at my local PetSmart this afternoon is a perfect illustration of why I say this:

I had bought a couple of fancy yellow guppies from PetSmart about a week ago. These guys must not have been healthy to begin with, as one perished late last night (I found him stuck to the filter intake), and early this morning, after replacing about 70% of the water (a bit more than I usually do on a weekly basis, to compensate for last night's dead fish), the other one died. There are three orange fancy guppies living in this tank also, and they are all perfectly healthy - I've had them for around a month. And, I do regular water changes, feed quality food, etc. Not to say I can't make a mistake, but I really don't think I caused these yellow guppies to die.

I brought the one deceased guppy back to the store today (I didn't think to save the one from last night), along with a water sample in a separate container. At the store, the young man helping me (who was very friendly), started testing the sample with the "dip stick" kits. After first running the pH, he exclaimed: "Wow - your water is really acidic - no wonder the fish died." I asked him exactly what the reading was, and he said "oh, around 6.2". I was astounded - this is slightly brackish water (1.005), which I explained to him, and he didn't seem to understand the significance of marine salt on pH (for those reading who don't know, it raises it). I asked him to double check, which he did, and he got the same result. I asked him if he had another type of test kit (liquid), and he said no. He ran all the other tests (chlorine, ammonia, nitrite, etc.) and all were "fine" (I asked for the numbers, but he couldn't read them).

The store did ultimately exchange my guppy after I insisted, but I drove home in a panic, wondering if perhaps the MelaFix that I had used in the water (the orange guppies are a bit nippy!) somehow drastically altered the pH. And, I entertained all sorts of other horrible possibilities. In fact, I was so upset, I almost ran a red light!

I got out my Freshwater Master Test Kit from Aquarium Pharmaceuticals as soon as I got home, and on the "low end" test, the water in question's pH read 7.6. I tested again on the "high end" test, and this one came out to 7.4. And, just to be extra sure, I used BF's electronic pH meter, which gave a reading of 7.3. So, I think it's safe to say the water's pH is around 7.4 or so.

I did call the manager back, and told her what had happened. Not so much for myself, as I ended up with another fish - no charge - but for the people who do in fact rely on LFS advice/test kits. She assured me she'd look into it, and even said that at home, she never used the "dip sticks" either, as she doesn't trust them. I didn't want to get the employee in question in trouble, as he was only doing what he was taught, by the store, to do; but I did want to make my point that the store should consider switching to a more reliable method of testing. Who knows if that will happen, but at least I tried.

So, in sum - ANYONE who's keeping fish needs to have his/her own test kit. It's no good to rely on the LFS, or a friend or someone else, to do water parameter tests for you; rather, run your own tests so you can be sure you're reading numbers correctly, etc. Also, even if it saves a few minutes or a few dollars, DON'T buy those ridiculous "dip stick" tests - they obviously DO NOT WORK! I'm very pleased with the API Freshwater Master Test Kit mentioned above, but there are other brands than some folks successfully use.

Hope I've helped educate folks and maybe even saved some fishy lives today!

Best,

-JKJ


Ryno

Posts: 4,022
From: Nut House occupant, obvious reasons
Registered: Jan, 2006

Re: Perfect example why you shouldn't rely on ANYONE to test your water for you Posted: Mar 10, 2007 4:18 PM
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Being from a LFS I can tell you not all test kits are equal....even the same brand. We test water all the time using Red Sea products which are Ok but not exact, I had the same tests at home, they were both different. For example I have never had a 0 ammonia reading on the Red Sea kit but on other brands it tests fine. LFS workers in general could care less about your tank and just want to get your water tested ASAP. Unless you are using a top of the line test kit I think variations are inevitable. I will gladly discuss the ethics of LFS's with you if you would like. I know nothing about PetSmart (we don't have one here) but I know Petco has a horrible example of what saltwater fish should look like, I'll bet 80 percent of these fish end up dead. I completely agree with you, you cannot trust one test kit unless it is proven accurate, it is better to have 2 (LFS or otherwise) to confirm your readings. After reading that it is a bit rambly but you get the idea.

jkj454

Posts: 4,290
From: Aurora, IL
Registered: Feb, 2003

Re: Perfect example why you shouldn't rely on ANYONE to test your water for you Posted: Mar 10, 2007 5:53 PM
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<Unless you are using a top of the line test kit I think variations are inevitable.>

True enough, but the variations should be within a "reasonable" range...not going from one extreme to a perfectly acceptable, for standard FW (or BW) use. I'm neither a scientist nor a statistician, so I don't know what the "standard deviation" is/should be, but to me, the drastic difference between a reading of 6.2 and my own variations ranging from 7.3 to 7.6 isn't acceptable (the minute differences from my own readings seemed on par, in my opinion).

-JKJ

Ryno

Posts: 4,022
From: Nut House occupant, obvious reasons
Registered: Jan, 2006

Re: Perfect example why you shouldn't rely on ANYONE to test your water for you Posted: Mar 10, 2007 6:38 PM
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Oh I agreed with you from the beginning. All I meant by what I said is that no one should trust a single LFS test kit, they could be old, cheap, etc. I was not trying to put a LFS spin on things......I completely agree.

bark52

Posts: 1,716
From: at school
Registered: Jan, 2006

Re: Perfect example why you shouldn't rely on ANYONE to test your water for Posted: Mar 11, 2007 10:31 AM
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i think it depends on the store though
there is one by me that uses Tetra Test liquid, they also show you the results

i guess its franchise stores and really lousy indep. stores

jkj454

Posts: 4,290
From: Aurora, IL
Registered: Feb, 2003

Re: Perfect example why you shouldn't rely on ANYONE to test your water for Posted: Mar 11, 2007 8:48 PM
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<i think it depends on the store though
there is one by me that uses Tetra Test liquid, they also show you the results>

Well, this is obviously better, but still not optimal, IMO. As a aquarist, you should have the necessary tools at your disposal to diagnose water quality issues at all times. Plus, if you get a skewed result, you can easily re-run the test yourself, as opposed to arguing with someone else about why or why not the test results are accurate.

Just my $0.02...

-JKJ

C. heraldi

Posts: 8
From:
Registered: Feb, 2007

Re: Perfect example why you shouldn't rely on ANYONE to test your water for Posted: Mar 11, 2007 11:26 PM
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I have been shopping with Petland for quite a while, and I am happy to say that at the two different ones that I have gone to, I have seen them using the Hagen Master Test kit. You know the one in the huge green box? This is the same one that I have. A friend and I affectionately refer to it as the "Anthrax Kit". If Petsmart has gone to "dip sticks" then perhaps they are dipsticks and need to reexamine their policies. No wonder the one in my town isn't allowed to order Discus or anything marine for that matter. I think that I would try another store.

Brandon.

depcdivr

Posts: 595
From: Syracuse, NY
Registered: Jul, 2005

Re: Perfect example why you shouldn't rely on ANYONE to test your water for Posted: Mar 12, 2007 9:52 AM
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I used to be a mgr at Petsmart and let me tell you why they use the dip stick tests. It is because the "kids" they hire to scoop fish are there because they are not qualified to run the register. They will hire anybody with a heart beat and that is even questionable at times.

I do not agree with the stick tests(or many of the people doing the tests). Most of the time, the tests are not kept dry( i.e. stored in the cantainer with the lid loose or even off) and thus they are used well before they are dipped into your water sample.

ste1982

Posts: 308
From: uk
Registered: Jan, 2007

Re: Perfect example why you shouldn't rely on ANYONE to test your water for Posted: Mar 12, 2007 10:58 AM
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at least you petsmart/pets@home test the water, when i bought 2nd pair of oto's that died the same day they just gave me replacements and werent interested in checking my water, i will no longer buy livestock from pets@home, not one single member of staff know what theyre talking about, i overheard one of them telling a woman that she would have no problems keeping neon tetra and guppies with goldfish, i couldnt beleive what i was hearing and just had to step in and inform the poor woman that she would be better off just throwing the money in the toilet, she was disgusted after i told her that guppies and tetra needed to be in a filtered heated tank seperate from goldfish.

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