Possible whirling disease Home » Forums » Freshwater Aquariums Replies: 9   Pages: 1   Most recent reply posted by: grim_1_ (May 21, 2005 3:58 AM)

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Replies: 9   Pages: 1

Nerov Posts: 275 From: Grand Rapids, MI Registered: Jan, 2004 Possible whirling disease Posted: Jan 17, 2005 2:22 AM Reply Ok, now that those damn worms are gone a new issue arises: One of the glass cats has started spinning, or rotating or rolling or whirling- depending on what axis point is used. I searched the old posts for 'spinning', 'rolling', and 'whirling' and I believe these may describe my problem: http://wetwebfotos.com/talk/thread.jsp?forum=31&thread=22545&message=180938&q=22576869726c696e6722#180938 http://wetwebfotos.com/talk/thread.jsp?forum=31&thread=17692&message=142866&q=22576869726c696e6722#142866 However, much of what I found concerning 'whirling disease' involved fish swimming in a circular manner like a dog chasing its tail. This is not the behavior I'm faced with. My fish is rolling- think of a pencil moving down a slanted table, linerly rolling. Should I considered this whirling disease and treat (euthanize) accordingly? I have had the fish for a little over a year, currently none of the other fish display this rolling characteristic. I have QT the fish. The rolling comes and goes, even when the fish is swimming straight the right barbel points downward- the fish rolls to to the right. This started out as an uncharacteristic wobble/ break in the shoaling formation. I immediately QT the fish as I observed this once before (last summer) in another glass cat. In the previous instance I separated the fish and it was dead within 4hrs. Through the translucent esh of the fish it appeared as though something had hemorrflhaged inside the body cavity of the fish. The current fish has been in this condition since sunday morning and appeared more stable (less tipsy) after QT. It tried to eat, but couldn't get aim for the food- hopefully better luck when I get home in a few hours. I suppose my main question is whether this rolling is considered whirling and thus whirling disease- or if this roll is not a whirl and indicative of a less severe swim bladder infection. Thanks, -Nero v-

vintage_fish Posts: 7,904 From: South Side of the Sky Registered: Mar, 2003 Re: Possible whirling disease Posted: Jan 17, 2005 2:08 PM Reply Definately sounds like whirling disease, to me. But I gotta say, I've never seen it in a glass cat - wierd. The "whirling" is.... well, it looks kinda like the fish is spinning like a top, with the fish's nose as the point of the top. Er, does that make sense? I'll crack out the Noga book tonight, but I'm pretty certain that it just isn't curable.... Do be sure to take the fish out of the main system immediately, if you haven't already; when the fish dies, it will release MILLIONS of spores that may infect your currently healthy fish.

Nerov Posts: 275 From: Grand Rapids, MI Registered: Jan, 2004 Re: Possible whirling disease Posted: Jan 18, 2005 3:13 AM Reply > The "whirling" is.... well, it looks kinda like the > fish is spinning like a top, with the fish's nose as > the point of the top. Er, does that make sense? Yep, I kept reading the 'top' reference & thinking of a fish swiming around in circles. > I'll crack out the Noga book tonight, but I'm pretty > certain that it just isn't curable.... Do be sure to > take the fish out of the main system immediately, if > you haven't already; when the fish dies, it will > release MILLIONS of spores that may infect your > currently healthy fish. Already done. One reason why I was hoping my rolling was not actually whirling. The most damming article I've read so far about the myxobolus cerebralis parasite is from http://wildlife.state.co.us/fishing/whirling.asp "Whirling disease spores are hardy, resist freezing, drought and can remain viable for decades." > But I gotta say, I've never seen it in a glass cat - > wierd. Most of what I've found holds whirling disease to be primarily a cold water issue, however, the tubifex worm is named as the intermediate host. I suppose it may have contracted the nastiness from some freeze-dried tubifex worms, so I'll be keeping an extra close eye on the others. Thanks, -Nero v-

vintage_fish Posts: 7,904 From: South Side of the Sky Registered: Mar, 2003 Re: Possible whirling disease Posted: Jan 18, 2005 1:05 PM Reply > Yep, I kept reading the 'top' reference & thinking of > a fish swiming around in circles. Aah, gotcha. No, think of the nose as the point on which the top spins, and think of the tail as the part that you twist to get it spinning. The axis would run nose-to-tail. > Already done. One reason why I was hoping my rolling > was not actually whirling. The most damming article > I've read so far about the myxobolus cerebralis > parasite is from > http://wildlife.state.co.us/fishing/whirling.asp > "Whirling disease spores are hardy, resist freezing, > drought and can remain viable for decades." Yeah, bad, bad stuff. DON'T mix water from the quarantine, DON'T share tools (nets, etc.) between the QT and the main tank, and so forth. It may be best to put the poor fellah out of his misery. :( > > But I gotta say, I've never seen it in a glass cat > - > > wierd. > Most of what I've found holds whirling disease to be > primarily a cold water issue, Indeed.... affecting juvenile salmonids, primarily, IIRC. But I've seen it in a number of mollies. Ananda has, as well, I believe. I've not seen it in other pet fish, though. > however, the tubifex > worm is named as the intermediate host. Augh. How awful. Yet another reason (on top of so very many other reasons) for me not to use tubifex. Please, never feed live tubifex, either - too much risk, so many other (as good or better) alternatives in the live foods dept. > I suppose it > may have contracted the nastiness from some > freeze-dried tubifex worms, so I'll be keeping an > extra close eye on the others. Gah. What a bummer. Good luck to yah.... In your reading, have you seen wether or not a UV sterilizer might be a good idea? Perhaps your LFS has one you can borrow for a couple of weeks? You might check on http://www.fishdisease.net (lots of myxobolus info), and my apologies, I didn't get home until very late last night - this evening I will see if the Noga book has any prevention suggestions. -Sabrina

Nerov Posts: 275 From: Grand Rapids, MI Registered: Jan, 2004 Re: Possible whirling disease Posted: Jan 19, 2005 2:52 AM Reply Thanks Sabrina. When I got home in the morning she was still alive (luckily) and swimming against the current, so I was able to get to her before the moment of death (when the spores are released). ...ok, so it seems infected fish release spores upon death after which the spores must continue their lifecycle in the gut of a tubifex worm. I suppose that means I can breath a little easier. Of course, if any of my other fish became infected from the same tubifex feeding they may not show symptoms till later- but hopefully I've seen the last of this evil little parasite. Apparently, UV sterilization is the most reliable method to kill the spores, when other fish are present in the system. Also the ol' standby- dump loads of toxic chemicals in killing everything in the system (I have 2cups of bleach running through the empty QT). Time to go sweet talk someone @ the LFS for a UV sterilizer. Oh, was using hikari's FD tubifex worms- http://www.hikariusa.com/fd_tubifex_worms.htm ..but as I now know- M. cerebralis, you can freeze it, dry it out and it can still live 20-30yrs without a host. -Nero v-

vintage_fish Posts: 7,904 From: South Side of the Sky Registered: Mar, 2003 Re: Possible whirling disease Posted: Jan 19, 2005 1:10 PM Reply > ...ok, so it seems infected fish release spores upon > death after which the spores must continue their > lifecycle in the gut of a tubifex worm. I could be wrong (GAH! Still need to look in Noga, so sorry), but I'm pretty sure this can pass fish-to-fish; doesn't have to be digenetic.

Nerov Posts: 275 From: Grand Rapids, MI Registered: Jan, 2004 Re: Possible whirling disease Posted: Jan 20, 2005 3:52 AM Reply http://www.fishdisease.net/fd/users/user_show.php?id=79 I found this from the fishdisease.net site, it's a German PhD students doctoral thesis. If you check the 'Personal Web Page' and follow Activities > Myxozoa there's a semi-coherent life cycle diagram. Besides, wouldn't it be nice if fish-to-fish contamination was not a possibility. -Nero v-

vintage_fish Posts: 7,904 From: South Side of the Sky Registered: Mar, 2003 Re: Possible whirling disease Posted: Jan 20, 2005 12:52 PM Reply Ahh, now THAT is a GREAT relief.

BalloonBelliedMoom Posts: 2 From: the couch Registered: Feb, 2005 Re: Possible whirling disease Posted: Feb 20, 2005 8:11 PM Reply Is it whirling disease if they do flips? One of my mollies was doing backflips for well over an hour last night (and he was still doing them when I checked on him twice during the night at like 2 am and 5:30 am), but he seems fine now. Should I worry??? I was so freaked out when he kept banging his little mouth on the ground! : (

grim_1_ Posts: 367 From: Registered: Jun, 2004 Re: Possible whirling disease Posted: May 21, 2005 3:58 AM Reply i just caught one of my balloon molly fry "whirling" like a top facing down, and spining like its off balance, like when the top is about to fall over. its in qt. could you please tell me if any of your other fish became infected??? im at a loss for how she became infected, no tubifex worms for the past 6 months or so. tetra spirulina, tetra tropical crisps, daphnia, bloodworms (freeze dried), and a few freeze dried krill once a month or so. i still havent decided if i should euthanize her, but if this is as bad as i suspect, its a moot point. right? any tips from your experience would be greatly appreciated

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